Diagnosed with Neuroendocrine Cancer? – 10 questions to ask your doctor (and where to find a NET Specialist Worldwide)


find net specilaist and 10 qeusitons

On the day I was diagnosed, I hadn’t really thought about questions, the only one I actually remember asking was “how long do I have left to live” (I watch too many movies!). On the day of diagnosis and a period beyond, people tend to feel emotions of shock, denial, anger and sadness, before going on to accept their situation. Yes, I ‘googled‘ but not a great deal really – although some things I found did frighten me. I wish I had found this article way back then.

As things progressed in the weeks after ‘D-Day’, I started to work out the sort of things to ask but even then it was limited. I had been referred to an experienced NET team so I felt confident they would do whatever needed doing. In hindsight, I can now think of a quite a few questions I should have asked. That said, I suspect my team probably gave me the answers without having been asked the questions!

My blogging efforts have turned into a ‘Community’ of sorts. Consequently, I’m contacted daily from people finding me on the web. Many of these people are at the pre-diagnosis or initial phase. Many are undiagnosed. Most are looking for information and some sound like they are already at the ‘acceptance stage’; some are frightened about the future, some are angry because they think they are not being told important information and some also feel they have been messed about or ‘fobbed off’ by their doctors. Of course I’m happy to help but only after reminding them that I’m just a wee Scottish guy with the same disease!

I have to say that some people arrive on my site without a diagnosis but often seem to be very well prepared – the power of the internet I suspect. The questions I mostly get involve finding experts and then what questions to ask them.

Finding experts

As an extra bonus to this post, I offer you a starting point for the best places I know for finding NET expertise:

Europe – here at ENETS: European NET Centres of Excellence

UK – here at UKINETS: UK NET Centres

USA:

  • One US center is now the first to achieve a European NETs Center of Excellence accreditation – read more hear about University of Iowa Holden Comprehensive Cancer Centerclick here
    NANETS have listed “NET Centers” here – NANETS NET Centers and Clinics
  • The NET Research Foundation as they also have a ‘Doctor Database’ section which differs slightly from CCF below.
  • Here at Carcinoid Cancer Foundation – Find a Doctor

Australia – here: Australian NET Doctors

New Zealand – Dr Ben Lawrence, based in Aukland.

Canada (from patient knowledge):

  • Dr. Simron Singh at Sunnybrook in Toronto
  • Dr. Shereen Ezzat at Princess Margaret in Toronto (PMH)
  • Dr. McEwan, The Cross Clinic, Alberta?
  • Dr Kavan at Montreal Jewish General Hospital (Oncology)
  • Dr Buteau / Beauregard at Quebec Hotel Dieu (Radiation Oncology (PRRT, Ga68)
  • Dr Rivera at Montreal General Hospital (Endocrinology)
  • Dr Metrakos at the Montreal Royal Victoria Hospital (Surgeon) sees a lot of NET patients
  • On the French side Dr Andre Roy at the CHUM in Montreal (surgeon) also sees a lot of NET patients
  • Dr. Jamil Asselah also treats net patients. He is an oncologist….Quebec
  • Michael Sawyer at Cross Clinic in Alberta Edmonton.
  • Drs. Parkins, Card, and Paseka at the Tom Baker CC in Calgary.
  • London Ontario: Dr. David Laidley, Dr. Robert Reid in the Neuroendocrine Clinic at London Regional Cancer Program and Dr. Daryl Gray, Surgeon.

Russia – Clinical Oncology Research Institute, N. N. Blokhin RCRC RAMS, Address: 24, Kashirskoye sh., Moscow, 115478, RF. NET specialist Alla Markovich

In my Group – ask other patients: Click here to join.

AskDoctor_0

Neuroendocrine Cancer – 10 questions to ask your specialist

Many people ask me what sort of questions to ask and because NETs is such a diverse bunch of diseases, that leads to me ask them a series of questions to ascertain what they might consider asking. I’m not surprised to find some are unable to answer my questions and so those then become some of their questions to ask!

Also, questions don’t end at the diagnosis phase, they continue and in fact, some of the answers to the questions below, may bring up new questions in your mind. Some of these questions can be asked time and time again in the event of issues downstream.

If you’re currently confused about the essential facts of your condition, you’re not alone. In a recent study, almost half of cancer patients did not know basic stuff such as grade and stage of cancer, and after their initial treatment, whether they were free of disease or in remission.

Pre-question Check

For those entering or are recently just beyond the diagnostic phase, you may find certain questions cannot yet be answered without further test results etc. However, if the answer is not yet known for whatever reason, at least you have it on your list for follow up appointments. Consequently, I’ve constructed this list of questions that should function as a generic set. There may also be ‘specific to country’ questions such as insurance cover in addition to this suggested list. Of course, some of you may not want the answer to so certain questions. That’s perfectly understandable, so don’t ask!

1. Where is my primary tumour and what type of NET is it?

This is a fundamental question and it’s likely many will already have some inkling about location and perhaps a type. The difference between NETs and other types of cancer is the primary can be found wherever there are Neuroendocrine cells rather than a specific part of the anatomy in terms of naming the type of cancer, i.e. a NET of the pancreas is not Pancreatic Cancer.

The type of NET is key as it will drive a lot of other stuff including treatment. Location and type of NET are not always aligned, for example, you may have a NET in your Pancreas but there are several types of Pancreatic NET (or pNET) and these may depend on identification of a particular hormone (see syndrome below). Many NETs are non-functional (there is no oversecreting hormone).

For some the primary will not yet be found (i.e. cancer of unknown primary or CUP). There may also be multiple primaries.

2. What is the grade and differentiation of my tumour(s)?

Another fundamental question as this defines the aggressiveness of the disease and is absolutely key in determining overall treatment plans. Treatment plans for poorly differentiated can be very different from well differentiated. Read more here – Grading and here – Benign or Malignant

3. What is the stage of my disease?

Fundamental to understanding the nature of your disease. Stage confirms the extent of your disease, i.e. how far has it spread. Again this will drive treatment plans and long-term outlooks. Scans are really important in determining the Stage of your cancer – check out my scans post here. Read more here on Staging

4. Do I have a NET Syndrome?

Many NET patients will have been experiencing symptoms prior to diagnosis, perhaps for some time. It’s possible these symptoms form part of what is known as a ‘Syndrome’ and there are several associated with NETs. Syndromes are mostly caused by the effects of over-secretion of hormones from the tumours, a hallmark of Neuroendocrine disease. Carcinoid Syndrome is the most common but there are many more depending on the primary location. Read more here – NET Syndromes.

5. What is my treatment plan, and what are the factors that will influence my eventual treatment? When will I start treatment

This is a very complex area and will depend on many factors. Thus why your specialist may not have the answers to hand. Decisions on treatment are normally made by some form of Multi-disciplinary Team (MDT).  Many people diagnosed with cancer expect to be whisked away to an operating theatre or chemotherapy treatment. However, for many this is not what actually happens. Depending on what testing has been done up to the actual diagnosis, it’s possible that even more testing needs to be done. Additionally, for those with an accompanying syndrome, this will most likely need to be brought until control before certain treatments can be administered; and even then, there may be checks to make sure the treatment will be suitable. Sometimes it’s a case of ‘Hurry up and wait’. My first treatment was 6 weeks after diagnosis and that was designed to control my syndrome ready for surgery which was undertaken 14 weeks after diagnosis. It’s also possible you will be placed on a ‘watch and wait’ regime, at least to begin with.

6. Can you comment on the potential for my type of NET to be related to any familial or genetic aspects of cancer?

A small percentage of NETs are hereditary/genetic in nature.  This is mostly associated with those who have Multiple Endocrine Neoplasms (MEN) syndromes  and a few other less common types of NET including Pheochomocytoma / Paraganglioma(Pheo/Para) and Medullary Thyroid Carcinoma (MTC) (the familial version of MTC is often referred to as FMTC). However, please note this does not mean that all those diagnosed with pancreatic, parathyroid, pituitary, Pheo/Para and MTC tumours, will have any hereditary or genetic conditions, many will simply be sporadic tumors.

7. Will you be able to get rid of all my disease?

This is a really difficult question for any specialist, even a Neuroendocrine expert. All published articles on NETs will say they are a heterogeneous collection of diseases (i.e. consisting of dissimilar entities) which makes this question (and others) difficult. I have read articles written by the world’s foremost NET experts and they all have the word ‘curative’ mentioned in various places. So I guess in particular scenarios with certain NETs, and if the disease is caught early enough, that possibility exists. However, for many, the disease could be incurable, particularly where there is distant metastasis. But, the disease has many treatment options for most types and for many it is possible to live as if it were a chronic condition. I call it ‘incurable but treatable’. Read more here – Incurable vs Terminal

8. What Surveillance will I be placed under?

Again, this is very individual in NETs and is mainly dependent on type of NET, grade and stage and how the patients reacts to treatment. This may not be known until you have undergone your initial treatment. For example, surveillance scans can be any period from 3 months to 3 years depending on tumour type(location) and stage/grade. Marker testing tends to average around 6 monthly but could be more or less frequently depending on what’s going on. Read more here – click here

9. Will I receive support and specialist advice after my treatment?

Let’s not be afraid of the word ‘Palliative’, it does not always mean ‘end of life’ care. Another example is nutrition. Many people with NETs, the condition in combination with the side effects of treatment may necessitate an alteration of diet and this is a very individual area. I would also emphasise that dietitians not well versed in NETs might not offer the optimum advice. Read more – My Nutrition Series.

10. How will treatment affect my daily life?

This is a question that many people miss but it’s becoming more important as we all live longer with cancer Again, this may not be possible to answer immediately but perhaps this question could be reserved once you know which treatment(s) you will be receiving. All treatment comes with side effects and can last for some time or even present with late effects after some years. The ‘consequences’ of cancer treatment need to be factored in earlier so that the necessary knowledge and support can be put in place. See also Unmet Needs for NET Patients

I suspect others will have suggestions for this list so feel free to submit these to me. I quite often refresh my posts over time.

Neuroendocrine Cancer: To cut or not to cut?


surgery

OPINION – nothing in here should be taken as advice from the author. 

On paper, surgery remains the only potentially ‘curative‘ option for Neuroendocrine Tumours (NETs) but there are stage, grade and anatomical constraints to that opinion. Many people get ‘twitchy’ about any inference of the ‘C word’ (cure) but our most eminent NET specialists use the term frequently including in the major treatment guidelines.

I use the word ‘curative’ with some reservations because for many who are diagnosed at an advanced stage, surgery will not cure but will debulk or cytoreduce as much tumour as possible in order to palliate symptoms and improve quality of life.  This is a big deal because NETs is one of a small number of cancers where debulking surgery can often provide a survival advantage for metastatic cases.  One of the reasons it’s a big deal is because with more aggressive cancers at an advanced stage, surgery just might not be offered. It follows that surgery is most likely adding to the fairly decent NETs survival statistics, including for those with metastatic disease at diagnosis.  More on this below.

That’s a fairly simplistic explanation on behalf of surgery. However, as we all know, nothing in Neuroendocrine Cancer is simple.  There are always a number of factors involved and every decision can in some way be on an individual basis.  There are guidelines for treatment of most types of NETs but ……. they are just that – guidelines.  NET Centres and NET Specialists are encouraged to use these guidelines, for example, a European Centre of Excellence has ENETS Guidelines.  There is a North American equivalent set published by NANETS and NCCN have a decent complementary set.  The UK and Ireland guys (UKINETS) also published a set although many UK centres are ENETS accredited.

Whether to cut or not to cut (or watch and wait then cut if necessary) and the sequencing of treatments is a really difficult issue for NET specialists.  I quite liked watching these two video clips and they cover this issue quite nicely including some interesting abdominal challenges in surgery from known NET Specialists – these short video sessions are highly recommended:

a.  Risk Stratification and Management of NETs – click here

b.  Surgical Considerations for NETs – click here

Surgery can sometimes be a tough call (……to cut or not to cut?)

It is an area where I have some sympathy for physicians and surgeons who sometimes have tough decisions to make. Surgery is risky, particularly where people are presenting in a weak condition, perhaps with very advanced disease, secondary illness and comorbidities.  I also suspect age is a factor (I was surprised to find myself considered ‘young’ at 55).  Physicians and surgeons need to weigh up these risks and the  consequences of the surgery against a ‘watch and wait’ or alternative non-surgical approach.  This would normally be discussed via a ‘Tumor Board’ or Multi-Disciplinary Team (MDT) meeting. However, and although imaging helps, the situation is not really 100% clear until the surgeon ‘gets inside’.  Remember, all physicians and surgeons are bound by the ‘Hippocratic oath’ of “Do no harm“.  Sometimes with NETs, it’s a tough call not only before they go inside but whilst they’re inside.

Surgery should be a carefully considered treatment (…..think before cutting?)

I read many stories from many different parts of the world and I also hear them from people who contact me privately on a daily basis.  Some of them are perplexed why they are not receiving surgery and some are not entirely happy with the surgery they received. Many are perplexed by different advice from different doctors.  I find it very difficult to respond to many. My most frequent answer is “ask your doctor” but I’m normally pretty helpful with the sorts of questions to ask.

One thing which tends to surprise people is speed – or lack of it!  With lower grade NETs, the extent of the tumour (stage), its metastases, histological grade and secretory profile should be determined as far as possible before planning treatment. I like to remind people that in 2010, it took from 26 July to 9 Nov before my body saw a scalpel. With Grade 1/2 well differentiated NETs, you can often get away with that gap.  Sometimes when you are diagnosed with NET, it’s a case of ‘hurry up and wait’.

Back to the guidelines, of course most people will probably fit reasonably well into the relevant guidelines flow chart.  A very generic example here (not for active use please, your area may have an alternative based on availability of treatments etc):

algorithm-ukinets-page-2-gutjnl-2012-january-61-1-6-f2-large
Very generic treatment algorithm UKINETS – Ramage JK, Ahmed A, Ardill J, et al. Guidelines for the management of gastroenteropancreatic neuroendocrine tumours (NETs) Gut 2012;61:6-32.  For example purposes only please.

Timing of Surgery (……to cut now, to cut later?)

Following on from the scenario above, timing of surgery can be another factor in a ‘watch and wait’ situation. I guess this might be something in the back of the minds of more cautious doctors when faced with a rather indolent and very slow growing Neuroendocrine Tumour. For some this can be a sensible thing – ‘kicking butt’ in a surgical context is sometimes the wrong approach. The worry is that if they are not a NET specialist, they may not fully understand the vagaries of neuroendocrine tumor behaviour (i.e. they all have malignant potential – WHO 2010/2017). We’ve all heard the stories of people being told it’s not cancer, right? Please note my article Benign vs Malignant.  However, you may be interested in this post from someone who is one of the most experienced NET surgeons on the planet.  Dr Eric Liu talks quite candidly about the ‘timing’ of surgery suggesting a ‘watch and wait’ approach in certain scenarios.

Of course cutting now might actually be a pre-emptive measure. For example, if physicians can see a growth which is critically placed close to an important structure such as a blood vessel or the bile duct or bowel. Even if the disease cannot be cured, removing the tumour may prevent problems in the future by removing disease from key areas before the vital structure has been damaged or blocked. For example, my surgeon conducted a high risk operation on some desmoplasia (serotonin fibrosis) which had encircled my aorta and cava almost occluding the latter. There’s an excellent surgery pamphlet from NET Patient Foundation and I strongly recommend a read as it’s an experienced surgeon’s approach to surgery with NETs (actually written by my own surgeon Mr Neil Pearce!).  Click here to read it.

One NET centre in USA has published very detailed surgical statistics indicating that surgical cytoreduction in NET patients has low morbidity and mortality rates and results in prolonged survival.  Their conclusion went on to say “We believe that surgical cytoreduction should play a major role in the care of patients with NETs”.  You can read the extract from this document by clicking here.  Authors: Woltering et al.

Was Steve Jobs a smart guy who made a stupid decision when it came to his health? It might seem so, from the broad outlines of what he did in 2003 when a CT scan and other tests found a cancerous tumour in his pancreas. Doctors urged him to have an operation to remove the tumour, but Mr. Jobs put it off and instead tried a vegan diet, juices, herbs, acupuncture and other alternative remedies. Nine months later, the Neuroendocrine Tumour had grown. Only then did he agree to surgery, during which his doctors found the cancer had spread to his liver. The rest is summarised in my article Steve Jobs.

Summary

This is a difficult subject and no one size fits all. Treatment for NETs can be very individual including surgery.  I guess you need to be comfortable with your team. I was lucky, in that I lived close to a NET Centre.  I was referred to their surgical team once my staging and grading were complete and I was stabilised on somatostatin analogues (carcinoid syndrome under control).  I realise it’s difficult for many but I always say to people who make contact, it’s best if you can be seen by a NET centre or an experienced NET specialist – at least be guided by one if not possible or practical.  Personally, I think the surgeon’s experience in dealing with NETs is really important.  But even experienced NET centres/specialists have to make tough calls.

You may benefit from my 10 Questions article which also has links to NET Specialists.

Thanks for reading

Ronny

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Neuroendocrine Neoplasms – Grade and Stage (incorporating WHO 2017 changes)

Grades of Neuroendocrine Tumour WHO 2017 15 Dec 2017

One of the most discussed and sometimes confusing subjects on forums is the staging and grading of Neuroendocrine Neoplasms (NENs). Mixing them up is a common error and so it’s important to understand the difference despite the apparent complexity. If I was to make a list of questions for my specialist/Oncologist at diagnosis, it would include “What is the stage, grade and differentiation of my cancer”.  To enable me to synchronise with the documented guidance, I’m going to use the following WHO 2017 approved terms in this post:

  • Neuroendocrine Neoplasm (NEN) – all types of Neuroendocrine tumour of whatever grade (please note Neoplasm is another word for tumour)
  • Neuroendocrine Tumour (NET) – all well-differentiated tumours (an explanation of differentiation will be provided below)
  • Neuroendocrine Carcinoma (NEC) – all poorly differentiated tumours

NEN Breakdown

Stage vs Grade

In the most basic of terms, stage is the spread or extent of cancer and grade is the aggressiveness of cancer. They are totally different things and an understanding of both is important as they are critical to predict outcome (to a certain extent) and guide therapy. There is no correlation between the two, you can have the lowest grade with the highest stage (actually very common with NETs).

As patients, we deal with many medical specialists during diagnosis and subsequent treatment.  However, we rarely meet the pathologist who plays a critical role in the outcome. Precise diagnosis is what drives patient decisions and treatment. If the pathology is wrong, everything that follows could be incorrect as well.  It’s a very important area.

Why is differentiation important?

To fully understand grading, you also need to understand the concept of ‘differentiation’.  In the most basic of terms, ‘differentiation’ refers to the extent to which the cancerous cells resemble their non-cancerous counterparts.  This is an important point for NETs because many low-grade tumour cells can look very similar to normal cells. The differentiation of a NET has an impact on both prognostics and treatment regimes.

NENs fall into one of three grades based on their differentiation and their proliferative rate. The proliferative rate is measured mainly using two methods known as Miotic Count and Ki-67 index, the latter seems to be more frequently used (but see below for Lung NETs). The Ki-67 index can usually be determined, even in cases of small biopsies but Mitotic rate counting requires a moderate amount of tumour tissue (at least 50 HPFs or 10 mm) and may not be feasible for small biopsies.  The Miotic Count method may be preferred or used in addition to Ki-67 for certain Lung NET scenarios as it is said to be more helpful in distinguishing atypical from typical NET (what some might ‘old fashionably’ and incorrectly refer to as Lung Carcinoid tumours), and for small and large cell lung Neuroendocrine Carcinomas (NEC).

Some of you may have heard the term ‘moderately differentiated’ which tended to align with an intermediate grade or Grade 2. However, please note that the term moderately differentiated as a classification was phased out in 2010 by WHO reducing from 3 differentiation levels to 2.  Grade 2 is also defined as well differentiated but based on different proliferative rate (see table). High grade was normally referred to as Neuroendocrine Carcinoma indicating it is a faster growing and more aggressive cancer. However, see below for an important change to high grade classification.

Grading – Key WHO 2017 Changes

WHO Classifications of Cancer are published in something known in medical world as “The Blue Book”.  For NETs, the 2017 version comprises only the “WHO Classification of Tumours of Endocrine Organs”.  Technically this would preclude the digestive system and lung NETs but I’m told on good authority from world leading pathologists and from listening to lectures at ENETS 2018, that the classification in the leading picture is to be used for all NENs. Worth also noting that the latest ENETS Guidelines are already using the new grading terms.  Many sites remain out of date so be careful where you look.

The 2017 World Health Organisation (WHO) classification sub-divided Grade 3 into two new entities: a well differentiated high-grade NET and a poorly differentiated high-grade NEC.  There may also be a cut-off point in proliferative rate (i.e. Ki-67) between NET and NEC in relation to potential treatment strategies (55% is mentioned for pNETs but I’m currently investigating).

The Grade 1 to 2 Ki-67 cut-off is changed from 2 to < 3 for clarification purposes.  There was some discussion as to whether it should be <5 but this was not accepted.

Well differentiated High Grade NETs are now recognised.  These are known as a NET rather than a NEC.  Both Grade 3 (NET) and Grade 3 (NEC) have the same biopsy marker cut-offs as per the leading slide but it is thought that a threshold reading of 55% could have some influence on the treatment regime. For example, a well differentiated tumour with a Ki67 of less than 55% might benefit from the same treatment given to Grade 1 or 2 patients, whereas a well differentiated tumour with a Ki67 of more than 55% might benefit from the same treatment given to poorly differentiated NEC. Only a guideline and I suspect this is like many things in NENs, very individual, relies on many factors, so your specialist will drive this accordingly.  You may see these 2 grades listed as Grade 3a for NET and Grade 3b for NEC.

Previously, Pheochromocytoma did not have an official grading regime, i.e. they were just benign or malignant.  Now they are using the same grading system as above.  I’m assuming this is the same for Paraganglioma and I will confirm in due course.  This is an excellent change and a continuation from the WHO 2010 classification where there was great emphasis away from a benign/malignant classification to formal grade levels on the basis that all NETs have malignant potential.

It also introduced a change to the naming of mixed cell tumours from Mixed AdenoNeuroendocrine Carcinoma (MANEC) to Mixed Neuroendocrine Non-Neuroendocrine Neoplasms (MiNEN).  A full explanation of this MiNEN will follow but I would suggest the use of the term ‘Neoplasm’ has been chosen rather than ‘Carcinoma’ is because these neoplasms can be well or poorly differentiated.

It’s not possible at this time to acquire copies of the official output but I will keep this blog live.

The source material for the 2017 version of this article.

From leading Pathologist Dr Anthony Gill  – Remember this is based on Endocrine Organs only but it will eventually apply to all.   I am awaiting access to free documentation to update this article further – only ones I can currently find are not free!

Misc Grading Issues

The proliferative rate can be diverse in NENs, so sampling issues can limit the accuracy of grading. More substantial samples of tumour are therefore preferable for grading thus why the Ki-67 index is preferred for biopsies where large amounts of tissue may not be available. The distinction of low-grade from intermediate grade can be challenging when using small samples. A couple of interesting observations about NET grading which I spotted during my research and ‘forum watching’.  You can have multiple primary tumours and these might have different Ki-67 scores.  Additionally, on larger tumours, Ki-67 scores can be different on different parts of the tumour.  And something I know from my own experience, secondary tumours can have different Ki-67 scores than primary – even a different grade.  In my own case, my liver secondary tumours were graded higher than my primary which according to my surgeon is in keeping with a clone of the disease having become more aggressive over time.  Royal Free Hospital NET Centre indicates a person’s grade should be taken from the highest biopsy grade taken. This is a fairly complex area but a recent study published by the US National Institute of Health and many anecdotal comments made by NET specialists indicates that is a fairly common scenario.

Staging (spread)

Staging is the extent or spread of disease.  Most types of cancer have 4 stages, numbered from 1 to 4 indicating a rising spread as the number is bigger. Often doctors write the stage down in Roman numerals, perhaps this is to stop any confusion between standard numbers used for Grades? So you may see stages written as I, II, III and IV.  In addition to this standard method, there is also an agreed model known as TNM (Primary Tumour, Regional Node, Distant Metastasis) which is essentially a more detailed staging definition when combined with the Stage 1-4 model.  Please note with TNM models, there could be different stage descriptions depending on the location of the primary tumour and similarly different TNM models for different tumour locations.

WHO 2017 changes

WHO 2017 has recommended enhancements to the TNM system mainly the use of additional suffixes indicating the extent of lymph node involvement. Details to follow when I can free access.

The following example shows the stage descriptions for a NET of the small intestine (the others are similar but worded accordingly for that part of the anatomy):

Stage I tumour is less than 1 cm in size and has not spread to the lymph nodes or other parts of the body.

Stage II tumour is greater than 1 cm in size and has started to spread beyond the original location, but has not spread to the lymph nodes or other parts of the body.

Stage III is any size tumour that has spread to nearby areas of the body and also to at least one lymph node.

Stage IV is any size tumour that has spread to one or more lymph nodes and has also spread to other, more distant areas of the body (such as the liver).

It’s also worth pointing out that Stage IV does not necessarily mean a cancer is more dangerous than other cancers of lesser stages.  This is an important point for NETs where Stage 4 can be matched up with a low-grade tumour i.e. Stage 4 for lower grade NETs is very often not the ‘red flag’ it is for other more aggressive cancers.  For example, doctors may surgically remove a Stage IV NET, while surgery might not help a patient with a cancer of a higher grade at such a late stage.

Notes:

  • Sometimes doctors use the letters to further divide the number categories – for example, stage 2A or stage 3B.  This is normally to clarify or provide more detail of the primary tumour size/invasion in conjunction with the TNM model.
  • You may also see something called Stage 0 which is for ‘Carcinoma in situ’. It means that there is a group of abnormal cells in an area of the body. However, the number of abnormal cells is too small to form a tumour and may, therefore, be currently classed as benign.  The World Health Organisation (WHO) system does not appear to recognise Stage 0 for NETs.

The most generic model for TNM staging is below but please note this could be adjusted for particular types of NET.

Primary Tumor (T)
TX: Primary tumor cannot be evaluated
T0: No evidence of primary tumour
Tis: in situ (abnormal cells are present but have not spread to neighbouring tissue; although not cancer, in situ may become cancer and is sometimes called preinvasive cancer)

T1, T2, T3 and T4 is a measure of the size of, and/or invasion/penetration by, the primary tumour and the wording varies between different NET sites. e.g. for a small intestinal NET:

T1 tumour invades mucosa or submucosa and size <=1 cm

T2 tumour invades muscularis propria or size >1 cm

T3 tumour invades subserosa

T4 tumour invades the visceral peritoneum (serosa)/other organs

For any T add (m) for multiple tumours

Regional Lymph Nodes (N)
NX: Regional lymph nodes cannot be evaluated
N0: No regional lymph node involvement
N1: regional lymph node metastasis

Distant Metastasis (M)
MX: Distant metastasis cannot be evaluated
M0: No distant metastasis
M1: Distant metastasis is present

You may occasionally see TNM staging be prefixed by lower case letters.  The most commonly used prefix is ‘p’ simply meaning the grading has been confirmed by pathology.  e.g. pT4 N1 M1

Specialists can combine the Stage to create a TNM – for example:

This slide will be updated when I get access to WHO 2017 or updated AJCC pubication.

Summary

A complex area and I hope I have condensed it sufficiently for you to understand enough for your purposes.  Despite looking very scientific, it is not an exact science. There are many variables as there always are with Neuroendocrine disease.  NENs can be very challenging for a pathologist even an experienced one who may not have encountered NENs before.  However, it is an extremely important part of initial diagnosis and also when needed during surveillance.  It is a vital tool used by Multidisciplinary Teams (MDT) in treatment plans and for prognostic purposes.  If you need to learn further, I recommend this document:

If you are interested in this subject and have one hour to spare, there is a great video here from LACNETS worth watching.

Finally – always make sure you get your pathology results at diagnosis and following any subsequent sampling.

You may benefit from reading these associated posts:

Benign vs Malignant

Incurable vs Terminal

Carcinoid vs Neuroendocrine

10 Questions for your doctor

Looking for a needle in a haystack

Thanks for reading

Ronny

I’m also active on Facebook. Like my page for even more news. Help me build up my new site here – click here and ‘Like’

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Remember ….. in the war on Neuroendocrine Cancer, let’s not forget to win the battle for better quality of life!


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